tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6011834419662563584.post5507169293253811279..comments2023-10-24T01:40:31.335-07:00Comments on A People's History of Hip Hop: The Children's CrusadeAbe Beamehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02555083249178098320noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6011834419662563584.post-43606778602072190782009-03-31T13:25:00.000-07:002009-03-31T13:25:00.000-07:00Huh, sounds like I need to familiarize myself with...Huh, sounds like I need to familiarize myself with ParisAbe Beamehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02555083249178098320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6011834419662563584.post-50390423969633940042009-03-31T12:43:00.000-07:002009-03-31T12:43:00.000-07:00Yeah, I shot my mouth off before I saw you give Th...Yeah, I shot my mouth off before I saw you give The Coup a lot of love.<BR/><BR/>I agree DP took things in a different direction, more on a street level than Paris, more hooked into hip-hop as a whole than Paris in a lot of ways (particularly as they came out during that long period where he was a stockbroker.)elmattichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11933850880844830270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6011834419662563584.post-91885661974313759332009-03-31T08:40:00.000-07:002009-03-31T08:40:00.000-07:00I co sign pretty much every point. In retrospect g...I co sign pretty much every point. In retrospect going at PE in any respect is fairly nuts, and really no disrespect was intended. What I was trying to set up was how DP kind of took their political hip hop in a different, previously unseen direction, maybe I was too quick to view this as an evolution. And a big co sign on The Coup, in the event you check back for a response you may enjoy this: http://abebeame.blogspot.com/2008/09/live-from-bay-boots-brings-revolution.htmlAbe Beamehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02555083249178098320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6011834419662563584.post-48149123295608481962009-03-31T02:29:00.000-07:002009-03-31T02:29:00.000-07:00Excellent overview of DPZ. I also was really exci...Excellent overview of DPZ. I also was really excited when Let's Get Free dropped, because like you said someone was finally bringing political hip-hop forwards...there hadn't been anything new since Paris' Sleeping With the Enemy and The Coup's debut.<BR/><BR/>Like you said though, I was all pumpin' my fist until they told me to drink more water (8 glasses a day...that's supermodel, not gangsta or revolutionary). I stuck with them but the beats got weaker and weaker, the critiques just got shoutier and more and more reductive. Then Immortal Technique came along and everything was all right again...<BR/><BR/>You know what DPZ' problem is? No sense of humour or heart. That's what makes The Coup superior (along with much more consistently better beats). Even when Immortal Tech drops his ridiculous Beef & Broccoli, he at least gets unintentional laughs. That's what Chuck D always knew and why he had Flavor--and why PE albums with weak/lacking Flavorifics aren't as good. Chuck knows you need some relief from the revolution.<BR/><BR/>I think you're also overrating DP vs. PE. Yes, DP do a brilliant job at indicting the school and prison systems specifically, but both groups do their share of booty-shaking fist-pumping sloganeering. <BR/><BR/>PE I think takes a broader view and maybe uses a wider brush but I don't think their indictments are any less incisive--and by taking a broader stance I think their work has more lasting value and higher artistic substance. Someone like Billy Woods is much more their *direct* descendant in this sense.<BR/><BR/>If anything DP is "somewhere between NWA and PE" and takes things more literally, along the lineage of Paris and IT...it's a mistake to compare them ultimately since you're talking about anxiety of influence; DP making a conscious [sic] effort to be more direct, localized and literal than PE.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, good post.elmattichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11933850880844830270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6011834419662563584.post-61709816766140428712009-02-02T20:14:00.000-08:002009-02-02T20:14:00.000-08:00I suppose what I was trying to say was I appreciat...I suppose what I was trying to say was I appreciated their articulate anger. I can see how some of their diatribes can come off as semantics and there are fans that would be turned off or uninterested in researching a reference tossed off casually but for me it was edutainment at its finest, and yes I feel the "innovation" is praise worthy. As a personal example which I'm sure a few LGF stans who came to the album earlier in life can attest to (as well as young KRS fans before them) I gained knowledge of a history that helped clarify my views on several subjects thanks to a few DP songs. Sometimes I get frustrated with PE, they bring you to the precipice of something profound but I feel there's nothing but fist shaking and rhetoric on the other side. Specific and cohesive were probably a poor choice of words, how about a place where the analysis is comprehensive and grounded on concrete? Not meant to be antagonistic, genuinely curious for some obscure back of an album gem I've missed.Abe Beamehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02555083249178098320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6011834419662563584.post-63647807412927407022009-02-02T12:57:00.000-08:002009-02-02T12:57:00.000-08:00Ah, "journalistic." That might be the key to the d...Ah, "journalistic." That might be the key to the difference between PE and Dead Prez, ultimately. Even though PE have been lauded as rap news correspondents, they really are more analysts of media than reporters. <BR/><BR/>As far as a cohesive, specific indictment, I'm not sure what that really means or whether or not it should be valorized. If you're looking for an example of PE denouncing "the crackers up in City Hall" you won't find it. Their cohesive, specific indictment is at all times leveled against the media, with the underlying assumption being that the media is a cheerleader/mouthpiece for the government. This is the case in "Don't Believe the Hype" and numerous other songs. If the message isn't very explicit it's because the subject is complex. Dead Prez are good at riling up sixteen year olds into angry fits of proscriptive rage but what's so inherently great about that? Paul Barman once jokingly rhymed about the kind of "agitprop" meant to "piss off a traffic cop?" Is there a danger of falling into that category when you seek to hand out "specific indictments" through song/T.R.O.Y.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18239325123578033116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6011834419662563584.post-48480703046612025952009-02-01T23:03:00.000-08:002009-02-01T23:03:00.000-08:00It's nice getting a comment that elevates the disc...It's nice getting a comment that elevates the discussion above masturbatory intellectual one upsmanship. I'd be interested for some recommended songs in which you feel Chuck offers a cohesive, specific indictment. I begrudge PE nothing for the record, it's like trying to compare "Children's Story" and "Niggas Bleed". A song like that doesn't just materialize, it's built on the backs of breakthroughs that came before it. Chuck's contributions are no less valid through DP's building on his work, I just remember being 16 and hearing LGF for the first time and being blown away by their journalistic approach.Abe Beamehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02555083249178098320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6011834419662563584.post-18383836264619377072009-02-01T16:36:00.000-08:002009-02-01T16:36:00.000-08:00I'm not sure I'm entirely in agreement with the co...I'm not sure I'm entirely in agreement with the concept that Dead Prez's message is generally more lucid or more incisive than Public Enemy's. For one thing, I feel like Public Enemy's social commentary was typically carried out through the lens of the mass media - their social critique was media critique. When they chastised members of their community for amorality, indifference, or defeatism, they were quick to point out how the mass media engineers such mentalities and then resells the images of zombie-like negroes living lifestyles based on these mentalities as justifications for cutting social spending or allowing cops to shoot unarmed kids without repercussion. <BR/><BR/>Dead Prez do engage in similar discourse, but like you've pointed out they are a little bit more inclined to engage politics and history through the lens of economics.<BR/><BR/>PE weren't confusing to listen to, though, for the average listener, because Chuck D was singularly talented at breaking down relatively complex concepts with a very down-home avuncular style. So while it does take a focused mind to absorb chuck's deconstruction of mass media and race, his lack of reliance on academic texts worked very favorably for him. Whether or not his approach is more admirable or effective is probably a subjective call but there's no doubt in my mind that for the most part he did not have much of a problem concisely and clearly getting his point across.<BR/><BR/>I enjoyed this post. It's good to see some actual discourse in the rap blogosphere.T.R.O.Y.https://www.blogger.com/profile/18239325123578033116noreply@blogger.com